In this episode, Andy talks with Dr. Kelly Heuer, Vice President of Learning at PMI, where she leads global learning strategy across professional standards, training, certification, and career-long development. Kelly takes us behind the scenes of the updated PMP® exam and explains what changed in project work that made this refresh necessary.

You’ll hear why the business environment domain now makes up nearly a quarter of the exam, how new multi-question case scenarios assess judgment instead of memorization, and why broader recognition of associate and vocational degrees matters to her as a first-generation college graduate. Kelly and Andy also explore what a strategic project leader actually looks like, why judgment may be the new job security in the age of AI, and practical ways early career professionals can build judgment as entry-level rungs disappear. Kelly shares how she learned to say the thing, the difference between perishable and enduring skills, and the two capabilities she most wants to grow in her kids.

If you’re preparing for the PMP, already certified, or looking to sharpen your judgment as a project leader in a world shaped by AI, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

  • “You needed a project manager. And instead you got me, and I have no idea what I’m doing.”
  • “But you know, I am a firm believer that, you know, the credential associated with your name, the name of your university, whether you went to university or not, is nowhere near an adequate representation of your actual potential or your actual skill.”
  • “You don’t have three facts. You have an entire story, right?”
  • “Having a consistent measurement system where you’re looking at value accumulation, value realization throughout the course of a project through project close is a really important differentiator.”
  • “And it’s about thinking three steps ahead and three rings out in like your concentric circles of influence.”
  • “But one of the ways you can combat that is being specific about what you mean and what it looks like, right?”
  • “But, you know, the way I think of it is AI is just, like, the latest test of professional judgment.”
  • “But I want to make one more point as well, which is that learning by osmosis was never a good professional development strategy anyway.”
  • “So in here, in this case, I actually think AI is part of the solution to the problem that AI caused, which is one of the great things about AI, even the freely available tools, is it’s kind of like an inexhaustible interlocutor.”
  • “Find ways to lead and manage small projects, even if you’re just organizing trash collection in your neighborhood.”
  • “I think there’s also just a lot of observational learning that doesn’t have to hurt at all.”
  • “But you can do a lot of saying the thing, challenging directly, asking the question if you pair it with a lot of signals of interpersonal warmth, which can be things like smiling and eye contact.”
  • “It’s so much less relevant to actually wordsmith your prompt now. It’s much more about context engineering.”
  • “So in my opinion, the most enduring human skill of all is a capability for continuous learning, staying curious, staying fresh, staying open and permeable to new information, and strategic about how you build those skills so you’re not wasting time doing it.”
  • “No way. The robots are overconfident.”

Chapters

  • 00:00 Introduction
  • 02:00 Start of Interview
  • 02:12 From Philosophy to Project Management
  • 04:55 What Changed in Project Work to Drive the PMP Exam Update
  • 07:52 Business Acumen and the Shift Toward Agile and Hybrid
  • 09:22 Recognizing Associate Degrees and Technical Education
  • 11:22 Counting Project Experience After Career Gaps
  • 13:29 Inside the New Multi-Question Case Scenarios
  • 16:47 Exam Prep Advice That No Longer Helps
  • 18:46 Closing the Gap Between the Real World and the Exam
  • 20:49 What a Strategic Project Leader Does Differently
  • 25:11 Avoiding Bias When Assessing Strategic Thinking
  • 26:17 Judgment as the New Job Security in the Age of AI
  • 29:15 How Early Career Professionals Can Build Judgment
  • 34:51 Small Projects, Observational Learning, and Near Peer Learning
  • 36:54 Learning to Say the Thing
  • 40:17 Coming Across as an Ally, Not a Critic
  • 41:21 Perishable, Durable, and Enduring Skills
  • 45:14 Growing Curiosity and Humility in Our Kids
  • 48:18 End of Interview
  • 48:51 Andy Comments After the Interview
  • 51:53 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Kelly and her work on LinkedIn at LinkedIn.com/in/kelly-heuer.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

  • Episode 319 with Sierra Hampton Simmons. Sierra is the former head of certification at PMI, and many of the ideas we discussed still apply to the refreshed PMP exam.
  • Episode 513 with Fred Marshall. It’s not about certification, but it’s all about thriving in an age of AI, a major theme in today’s episode.
  • Episode 509 with Steve Kahle. Steve shares practical ideas for improving your ability to recall what you’ve learned.

Chat with PMeLa

You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast’s AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.

Pass the PMP Exam

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Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I’d love to help you get your PMP this year!

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: PMP Certification, PMP Exam, Project Management, Business Acumen, Judgment, Strategic Thinking, Systems Thinking, Artificial Intelligence, Career Development, Early Career Professionals, Continuous Learning, Communication

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

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